Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

This forum is for general discussion regarding VCarve Pro
TSmith88
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Onsrud

Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TSmith88 »

I'm new to using the Forums here, so please forgive my ignorance if this is something quick and easy to find.

I have a job that is using multiple different materials, is there a way for me to nest each of those materials within the same file, or is it necessary for me to create a new file for every individual material?

User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
Posts: 14503
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by Adrian »

What do you mean by materials? VCarve has no concept of material. Do you mean different sheet sizes? If so there is currently no way to handle multiple sheet sizes within a single nest. You can fudge it a bit with the vector boundary option but it requires a bit of cut and pasting to achieve.

TSmith88
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Onsrud

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TSmith88 »

Sorry, I was a little unclear.

I need to nest some parts onto sheets that will be cut from 1/2" Birch plywood, and I need to nest some different parts onto sheets that will be cut from 1/2" maple plywood, so I need to separate both of those nests for my shop to cut them properly.

What I was hoping to do was to nest the birch parts and GCode them, then nest the Maple parts and GCode them, with both nests on the same file, as opposed to having a Birch Plywood VCarve file,and a separate Maple Plywood VCarve file. Is that possible? Does that make more sense?

User avatar
dealguy11
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 2459
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:52 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Anderson Selexx 510
Location: Henryville, PA

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by dealguy11 »

Not sure what the advantage is in having both materials in the same file. I'm not aware of a way to do that in the Vectric programs. Frankly, in my shop we'd prefer to have them in two separate files, as it's more natural. The material can be noted on the run sheet for each file to avoid confusion.
Steve Godding
Not all who wander (or wonder) are lost

TSmith88
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Onsrud

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TSmith88 »

Maybe just a way of wrapping my head around things differently. VCarve is a new program to me so I'm learning about it as I go. In my previous shop before I switched jobs I exported parts from AutoCAD, and assigned the material then so I'm used to having everything on the same file, and controlling the materials for individual vectors as I nested each shape individually. I do like the way VCarve uses the nesting feature MUCH better than my old program, but i guess old habits die hard and I'm trying to make VCarve perform in a way it's not meant to.

Seems like I'll just need to change my way of thinking and come up with a good way to organize my VCarve files per material. Anyone have suggestions for how they handle this?

User avatar
TReischl
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: 8020 48X36X7 RP 2022 UCCNC Screenset
Location: Leland NC

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TReischl »

Nope, none of it makes any sense to me.

As Adrian said above, the software knows nothing about materials. What it does know about is speeds and feeds.

I am not even sure if birch requires different speeds and feeds than maple. I highly doubt because the woods are very similar.

Also, you stated that some parts would be cut in the maple, and then some DIFFERENT parts would be cut in the birch. Then you write about assigning materials to vectors as you nest. Huh? What?

What CAN be done is fine tune your tool database. Mine has three sections. One is for hardwoods, it has the feeds for hardwoods. Another is softwoods, set up for cutting softwoods. The third is aluminum. So when I work with one of those materials I pick tools from that section of the tool database.

It is very unclear exactly what you are trying to accomplish. If the idea is to keep the shop folks from cutting the wrong parts in the wrong material then that would get worse if you start blending files for different types of material together.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

ger21
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 1592
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:59 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Custom DIY
Location: Lake St Clair, MI, USA
Contact:

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by ger21 »

Yes, it makes perfect sense, but you can't do it in Vectric software.
This is how it's done in higher end software, where you can batch process all your parts, with varying materials, at one time.
I do this every day with AlphaCAM, which costs considerably more than V Carve Pro.

With Vectric, you're limited to one material.
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com

User avatar
Ken Rychlik
Vectric Craftsman
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:24 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Buy, fix, and sell them
Location: Soutwest of Houston (Cabinetry)

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by Ken Rychlik »

You can add another sheet to the same file and just have different toolpaths for maple and birch.
Having multiple sheets in one file is no problem at all.

I have a gadget to add a sheet, but you could also nest a big square and vectric will add the necessary sheets that way also.
Custom CNC Work
Local Machine Repairs and Programming

User avatar
TReischl
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: 8020 48X36X7 RP 2022 UCCNC Screenset
Location: Leland NC

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TReischl »

Alright, if what he was talking about is batch processing then it makes more sense.

When I wrote nesting software (not a nesting engine) did the same thing. Parts were entered into a database that, among many other things, contained material type, thickness, etc. The programmer was presented a list of pending part orders arranged by material type. When he selected a material he was then only presented with parts of that material.

One of the systems I wrote for was called the river. It is multi-tower system that can have over twenty towers. Each shelf on a tower can have a different material, each tower had ten shelves. It fed multiple machines 24/7. However, I never put different material types in the same cnc file, that just strikes me as a bit weird? Maybe someone can enlighten me as to what the advantage of that is?

Interesting discussion. Sometimes I am not good at reading between the lines and figuring out what someone is trying to say. Old age.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

User avatar
dealguy11
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 2459
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:52 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Anderson Selexx 510
Location: Henryville, PA

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by dealguy11 »

Programs like cabinet packages, Autocad, Alphacam, etc. have the idea of an assembly of some kind - in a cabinet package it's a cabinet, in other packages they are other kinds of assemblies that can be made of different parts with different materials. In those packages you do pick a set of parts by material and nest them. The Vectric software has no concept of an assembly, and not really a concept of "part" either (in the sense of an entity with a related set of features and toolpaths). The closest they have to that is a "group", which allows you to group together geometry into an (unnamed) unit, and layers, which allow you to designate toolpaths that run on each layer. Each file allows you to define the thickness and xy dimensions of the material, but that's as close to a material spec as you'll get, and there's only one per file. So...putting your different materials in different files is your best option in the Vectric programs.
Steve Godding
Not all who wander (or wonder) are lost

User avatar
Jim_in_PA
Vectric Craftsman
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:24 am
Model of CNC Machine: Camaster Stinger II SR-44 (MacOS user)

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by Jim_in_PA »

It may have been mentioned and I missed it, but "thickness matters". If the materials are of the same thickness (within any very minor variance you are comfortable with) then theoretically, it would be possible to do the nesting you mention within the same file. However, with variable thickness or other potential factors, drawing everything in one file and testing tool paths followed by copying the components for each material to separate files and refining the toolpaths might be a more viable solution. I've done that a number of times to account for variable material thickness. If you're measuring to top of material there is a little more flexibility than if you are measuring to machine bed like I do because of automatic tool measurement, however.

TSmith88
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Onsrud

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TSmith88 »

TReischl wrote:Nope, none of it makes any sense to me.

As Adrian said above, the software knows nothing about materials. What it does know about is speeds and feeds.

I am not even sure if birch requires different speeds and feeds than maple. I highly doubt because the woods are very similar.

Also, you stated that some parts would be cut in the maple, and then some DIFFERENT parts would be cut in the birch. Then you write about assigning materials to vectors as you nest. Huh? What?

What CAN be done is fine tune your tool database. Mine has three sections. One is for hardwoods, it has the feeds for hardwoods. Another is softwoods, set up for cutting softwoods. The third is aluminum. So when I work with one of those materials I pick tools from that section of the tool database.

It is very unclear exactly what you are trying to accomplish. If the idea is to keep the shop folks from cutting the wrong parts in the wrong material then that would get worse if you start blending files for different types of material together.
I'm drawing the parts I need to cut within AutoCAD and importing them into VCarve. All of my parts are within the same AutoCAD file, so I was hoping to import the entire file and then nest my Birch plywood parts and toolpath them. Then nest my maple parts and toolpath them within the same file without losing the nest I did for the Birch parts.

Basically, I'm hoping to nest multiple times within the same file, without losing the previous nests. As far as I can tell there's not a way to do that.

User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
Posts: 14503
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by Adrian »

So you're importing a drawing of parts, selecting the birch ones, nesting and toolpathing them. Then you're selecting the maple ones and you want to nest and toolpath them without destroying the birch nest of parts?

If you really want to you can do it by using the vector boundary feature of the nesting and layers so that you have one boundary that is the part maple sheet and one boundary that is the birch sheet and keep re-nesting with the appropriate layer active and the others hidden. It will "destroy" the previous nest each time but as you've created a boundary of the sheet shape that shouldn't matter.

Personally I really don't see any sort of advantage in trying to keep it all in one file. It's far simpler to split into two files with one for each material and proceed from there using vector boundaries to keep track of part sheets if needed.

TSmith88
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Onsrud

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by TSmith88 »

Adrian wrote:So you're importing a drawing of parts, selecting the birch ones, nesting and toolpathing them. Then you're selecting the maple ones and you want to nest and toolpath them without destroying the birch nest of parts?

If you really want to you can do it by using the vector boundary feature of the nesting and layers so that you have one boundary that is the part maple sheet and one boundary that is the birch sheet and keep re-nesting with the appropriate layer active and the others hidden. It will "destroy" the previous nest each time but as you've created a boundary of the sheet shape that shouldn't matter.

Personally I really don't see any sort of advantage in trying to keep it all in one file. It's far simpler to split into two files with one for each material and proceed from there using vector boundaries to keep track of part sheets if needed.
I can see the benefit in splitting them up, being able to have more control per material, and keep things from getting confused with what sheet is what material to cut. It's just wrapping my head around doing things differently than the program that I used to use is all.

I appreciate all the help everyone is giving, I think it's just a matter of me adjusting to the way this program acts, as opposed to the one I used to use. I'm catching myself falling into the pitfall of trying to shove this program into the hole my old program used to fit, instead of finding the new hole that VCarve actually fits.

Greolt
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 990
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:44 pm
Model of CNC Machine: UCCNC Router, Plasma, Laser
Location: Australia 3781

Re: Nesting Multiple Materials in the same file

Post by Greolt »

I regularly nest a large number of odd shapes onto different material sheets.

On type of material is standard cut to 800 x 600 and others 800 x 500.

I simply set material size to one size, nest all the shapes that need to be cut from that and export the nest to a file type ready for the laser.

Then change the material size to the next sheet size and nest the shapes needed from that material. Export those to the laser file type.

Now you will of course notice that this is just using the nesting facility. Not really producing Vectric cut files with them.

So I can understand posters not seeing any need to do this. Just shows there are many and varied uses for Vectric software.

Sometimes questions asked make sense to the poster, but not to those who use the software in only the conventional way.

Post Reply