It Nearly Worked!

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BigC
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It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

Hi guys,
I'm looking for a little more help with my soccer crest/shield/emblem.
I managed to cut it out today. YES I know there is a multitude of things wrong with it, which is why I need some expert help
I am still a newbie and I'm using V-Carve Desktop. so go easy on me

Image

Firstly the 3D Tudor Rose model/indentation is too large for the piece (I will make this smaller thats not a problem) but maybe it is recessed too much I feel and I'm losing a lot of definition here, How do I correct this. (it's a genuine V3M file).
As the test material, I was using for this trial was MDF I lost a couple of the small bars in the milling because they are quite small especially when the V Bit is putting on a chamfer. I won't be using MDF for the final piece so any suggestions for which wood species I should go for. I don't want these small pieces breaking off on the final piece so any advice on that score would be ideal also
Thanks in advance for all your suggestions it is very much appreciated as I try to get to grips with the software and my limitations
Regards
C

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

I'm thinking to get more definition into the Rose relief I'm having to lift the base height of the model slightly, Am I correct in this line of thought?
Regards
C

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martin54
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by martin54 »

What size bit have you used for your 3D model, it might be that the lack of definition is due to using to large a bit, that's where the toolpath preview becomes your best friend as you can experiment until you get the detail you want without cutting anything :lol: :lol:
Bit's breaking off may be down to you trying to cut to agressively, with small detail you really have to slow the machine down. Applying a coat or 2 of sanding sealer can also help as it helps to bind the fibres together so there is less chance of tear out.

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

Hi Martin
Thanks for your reply.
I used for the 3D model (if that helps)
3mm Endmill for Roughing
3mm Ball Nose for Finishing
18000 rpm
Feed 900mm/min
Plunge 420 mm/min

For the pocket clearance which broke out small pieces I used
3mm Endmill
90 degree 12mm V Bit with same setting below (note the endmill did the damage)
18000 rpm
Feed 900mm/min
Plunge 420 mm/min.
Having said that there are 4 very small bars two were damaged and two milled fine..Maybe its just the MDF fibres and on proper timber especially hardwood this may not happen
Can you recommend a wood that doesn't chip out easily
Regards
C

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dealguy11
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by dealguy11 »

MDF should work, though a higher-quality MDF, if you can get it, should work better. Trupan double-refined MDF, Medite or Medex, would be good choices.

Was the endmill an upcut bit? Upcut bits will pull up the material at the surface and cause it to chip, both in MDF and hardwood. If anything, hardwood might chip worse. If you can, try a downcut bit.
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martin54
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by martin54 »

OK that is pretty slow so doubt if running slower is going to help lol, hard to tell from the picture what size it is but as a rough guide I was told that Vectric & Design & Make models are designed in a way that shows the maximum amount of detail when machined with an 1/8" ballnose at ther import size. If you have reduced the size of the model after import then a 3mm bit may not be small enough, if you have increased the size then you might get away with a larger bit (saving time) :lol: :lol:

It looks like there is a lip at the surface where the dish meets the flat surface, is that intentional or not?

Difficult to recommend woods because there seems to be quite a bit of difference depending on what side of the pond you are on so that is better comming from someone who lives over there but a search of the forum will probably give you some answers :lol: :lol: :lol:

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

dealguy11 wrote:MDF should work, though a higher-quality MDF, if you can get it, should work better. Trupan double-refined MDF, Medite or Medex, would be good choices.

Was the endmill an upcut bit? Upcut bits will pull up the material at the surface and cause it to chip, both in MDF and hardwood. If anything, hardwood might chip worse. If you can, try a downcut bit.
Good Call. 8)
Better MDF (Green, HDF) and down cutters gotcha!
many thanks
Regards
C
Last edited by BigC on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

martin54 wrote:OK that is pretty slow so doubt if running slower is going to help lol, hard to tell from the picture what size it is but as a rough guide I was told that Vectric & Design & Make models are designed in a way that shows the maximum amount of detail when machined with an 1/8" ballnose at ther import size. If you have reduced the size of the model after import then a 3mm bit may not be small enough, if you have increased the size then you might get away with a larger bit (saving time) :lol: :lol:

It looks like there is a lip at the surface where the dish meets the flat surface, is that intentional or not?

Difficult to recommend woods because there seems to be quite a bit of difference depending on what side of the pond you are on so that is better comming from someone who lives over there but a search of the forum will probably give you some answers :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks again Martin
No, the lip was not intentional, will bringing the base up (in the modelling tab) a little get rid of that, it seems to do on the preview but not sure
I did reduce the size when imported...its still a little too big so I may have to reduce it slightly again so should I reduce the bit size I have smaller ball nose bits at my disposal...what would the parameters be for the smaller bits (slower or faster)
Regards
C

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TReischl
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by TReischl »

About the tudor rose in the dish: There is a tutorial that shows how to put a model into a dish shape and NOT have it follow the underlying curve. Looks much, much better that way. Wish I could point you towards the tutorial but I do not have the info at my fingertips. It has to do with using two dish shapes, one of them set to "multiply" and a thickness of 1. Give it a go, you will not be sorry.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

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martin54
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by martin54 »

First off so I am clear on your process is this purely a 3D job or is it a combination of 2D & 3D toolpathing?
Reason I ask is because the Tudor Rose looks to be sat on a surface that could have been either 2D or 3D machined. That could make a difference to how it is positioned :lol:
Did you add a zero plane ?

As far as bit size goes then as I said before make the toolpath prieview your best friend. You can finish toolpath it with a smaller bit & then compare the results, if there is more detail showing with the smaller bit then you have a choice, a smaller bit will take longer for the job to cut so its a trade off between the level of detail you want to show versus the time it takes to machine :lol:
You didn't mention step over when you gave speed & feed settings & this makes a big difference with 3D machining.

You said that the ridge didn't really show in the preview, are you sure about that? If the ridge doesn't show in the preview then the problem is almost certainly not with the height you have the model set at in the software. The preview is very accurate. It is more likely to be something like your setting of z zero after a bit change or some other mechanical/control software problem.

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

Hi Martin
Thanks for your concise reply I will try to answer all your questions in turn
The material is MDF 18mm
There are only 3d tool paths for the rose everything else is 2d
I did not add a Zero plane (should I have) is this where the problem lies
I have performed all operations using smaller bits to no avail stepover was 10%
what I will say is, this time I got no breakouts using a 2mm endmill rather than a 3mm (it took longer but at least I know I can possibly get away with this one)
The Rose definition is the problem. (height/depth) it should be a lot thicker,
I want it looking something similar to this, heavy and embossed
Image

BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

As you can see
The problem of the rose in ver2 still persists (along with a few minor issues, remembering I'm still a novice)
I'm wondering what to do next. I could send someone the file (but I guess it's against Vectric agreements). in order for them to try in a flat 18mm piece of stock MDF or otherwise and send me their parameters, so as I can learn about how and why it was achieved.
Image
Regards
C

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martin54
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by martin54 »

Which model is it? is it the Tudor Rose model or the flourish 186 ?
I need a bigger monitor or people need to post bigger pictures lol.

Which version did you buy? Have you bought version A which is flat & then put it in a dish yourself or did the buy version B which is the dished version??

Problem is your file contains copyright material so sending to someone is not really allowed, you could however send it to Vectric Support & ask them to have a look over it for you :lol: :lol:

I can't enlage the latest pictures you posted, when I try it just wants me to log into the site you have posted them on :lol:

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Ken Rychlik
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by Ken Rychlik »

You can try to run the chamfer first to help eliminate knocking off the small parts. Possibly do an outline of the small parts with a smaller endmill before running the main clearing toolpath.

If you do a pocket around the 3d part and take all of that area down it will look more like the carving is sticking up.

Lots of ways to go about it..

For carving wood, I like Beech. My wood supplier calls it european beech. It's hard like oak, but has a softer look to it.

Depending on the final finish and look you are after, mdf is not a bad carving base. Wood can splinter, break off, leave fuzzies, ect...
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BigC
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Re: It Nearly Worked!

Post by BigC »

martin54 wrote:Which model is it? is it the Tudor Rose model or the flourish 186 ?
I need a bigger monitor or people need to post bigger pictures lol.

Which version did you buy? Have you bought version A which is flat & then put it in a dish yourself or did the buy version B which is the dished version??

Problem is your file contains copyright material so sending to someone is not really allowed, you could however send it to Vectric Support & ask them to have a look over it for you :lol: :lol:

I can't enlage the latest pictures you posted, when I try it just wants me to log into the site you have posted them on :lol:
Tudor Rose Dished version.

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