Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby ger21 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:45 am

wmgeorge wrote:Screen shots... and I just LOVE Windows 10 took a 3 minute job and made it 10 minutes!


Go to the Start menu, and scroll down to Windows Accessories. Right click on the Snipping Tool, and Select Pin to Start.

Use it next time, and Windows 10 will turn your 3 minute job into a 1 minute job. :D
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby adze_cnc » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 pm

wmgeorge wrote:Screen shots... and I just LOVE Windows 10 took a 3 minute job and made it 10 minutes!


Are you using the "Snipping Tool" (included since Windows Vista) rather than using the "Print Screen" button? Using Snipping Tool I get a screen shot in 30 seconds---if that.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby adze_cnc » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:24 pm

I don't think I have ever used a ball-end bit to rough out a 3D project. It must just wail like a banshee.

For the roughing toolpath did you use the "Z Level" or "3D Raster" Roughing Strategy?

If "Z Level" you might use a square-end milling bit instead of a round one. There will be less chance of leaving behind too much material for the 1/8" bit to clean.

Also, while you say you were leaving "0.04" behind you never (at least I can't recall seeing it) mentioned the 1/4" bit's pass depth.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 pm

adze_cnc wrote:I don't think I have ever used a ball-end bit to rough out a 3D project. It must just wail like a banshee.

Also, while you say you were leaving "0.04" behind you never (at least I can't recall seeing it) mentioned the 1/4" bit's pass depth.


Why would a ball nose bit be bad for roughing out its a 3D (2.5 D) in a dish and no it did not make any noise, why would it? Sure It might be faster to use a typical 2 flute standard one. Once again the .04 was something I never entered... It was there and I assumed it was set by the software when I selected the .250 bit in the 2.5D toolpath creation. I have Never set a roughing material in any of these 2.5 projects and they have all worked fine?

So Copy and Pasted right from the VCP9.5 online documentation on Finishing Tool Path:

Clicking the Select button opens the Tool Database from which the required tool can be selected.Clicking the Edit button opens the Edit Tool form which allows the cutting parameters for the selected tool to be modified, without changing the master information in the database. ADDED I posted the screen shot above it has NO edit tool form

For most 3D Finishing cuts a Ball Nosed end mill is used with a reasonably small stepover (8 - 12% of the tool diameter is typical).Variations on this tool type such as a tapered Ball Nosed cutter will also work and may offer more strength with smaller tool sizes.The size of tool will depend on the size of the part and the detail within the 3D part.Use the preview function to check the finish quality and detail; if they are not to a high enough standard then the job may require smaller tooling or a smaller stepover.3D cutting is always a tradeoff between time and quality and an optimum balance of tool size, finish quality, and time to cut.The choices made will always depend on an individual's personal preferences or the specifications of the job.

Roughing Copy & Paste Not One word about setting only that its calculated:
Machining Allowance

The machining allowance is a virtual thickness which is added to the 3D model when the Roughing Toolpath is calculated. This ensures that the toolpath leaves some extra material on the roughed part.

This is beneficial for two main reasons, the first is that when roughing it tends to be done with relatively large tool and aggressive cuts and so is more prone (depending on the material) to chip, this skin helps to prevent the chipping affect the finished surface.The second reason is that most tools cut well when they are constantly removing material.Therefore leaving an allowance of material on ensures that there is always at least some material for the finishing toolpath to remove
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby Adrian » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:50 am

wmgeorge wrote:
[b]Clicking the Select button opens the Tool Database from which the required tool can be selected.Clicking the Edit button opens the Edit Tool form which allows the cutting parameters for the selected tool to be modified, without changing the master information in the database. ADDED I posted the screen shot above it has NO edit tool form

The screenshot you posted does show the edit tool form displayed correctly. I'm not sure what you mean. The only difference between the form you get from the toolpath and from the form you get from the tool database is that the pass depth is not displayed. As explained before this is because the pass depth has no relevance to a finishing toolpath. Displaying it within the toolpath edit form would only serve to confuse people as they would change it and not understand why it was not having an effect.

It's the same thing with the v-carve toolpath. You can't edit/select an endmill as it has no relevance to a v-carve toolpath.

The machining allowance isn't a calculated value. It's a fixed value entered in the toolpath that is then added to the toolpath when it's calculated.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:57 pm

Adrian the big thing for me is I thought the software calculated the Roughing pass leave material depth. I was going by the published documentation I posted above which makes No reference to that being a user setting. How would I know otherwise? I had assumed that you could limit the Finishing path Depth of Cut, how would I know otherwise from reading what is published? The second screen you refer too is the one in the Tool Path pull down, the first is from the Tool Database,

If its not published how would a person know except to find out here after the fact.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby scottp55 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:21 pm

The very first 3D VCP Tutorial maybe (15:30 )?
http://support.vectric.com/tutorials/V9/selectedvideo.php?video_id=5

Without working right ALONG with the tutorials(sometimes a number of times) in order....I would have been lost years ago!
Sometimes before trying something new to me, I'll watch just to refresh my memory.
But actually Doing it with the tutorial sticks to my scattered gray mass better :)
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:40 pm

Why would I watch a 15 minute video when a line in the documentation would make it clear.

"The Roughing path will leave the amount of material that the User entered. Its important that the material left not exceed the finishing tools capability as that is not fully adjustable in the Finishing toolpath edit setting."

It takes 1 minute or less to read that.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby Adrian » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:33 pm

I'll have to agree to disagree on this. To me that is what it says already unless for some reason you read it assuming that the field is not editable. Also the software will warn you that tool breakages might occur if you put too large a value in there.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:47 pm

Regardless I just re-did the tool paths for both. But some changes in the documentation, how can it not help?
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby Rcnewcomb » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:18 pm

But some changes in the documentation

I put in a request that the 3D Finish documentation explicitly states that the pass depth of the tool is ignored and that the cutting is always at full depth.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:06 pm

Thanks Randall and when I redid my tool paths earlier today, I changed my material left to .02 and it allowed an amazing amount of more detail to be cut with that .250 ball nose that I would have imagined. Its going to cut down on lots of time spent using the Finishing tool. I hope my suggestion and query here will benefit others... who never asked.

I do a 3/2.5D project maybe once a month if that much, so these guys on here are so much more knowledgeable.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby martin54 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:20 am

I do a 3/2.5D project maybe once a month if that much, so these guys on here are so much more knowledgeable

Why would I watch a 15 minute video when a line in the documentation would make it clear.

Most of my knowledge about the software has come from studying the tutorials, user group meeting tutorials, the quick tips & tricks videos & from reading lots of posts on the forum, many of the answers I give are not things I have experienced myself but have come from other members who are experts with both the software & CNC machining in general.

When I first got the software I took the time to work my way through the tutorials, not just watching them but downloading the tutorial files so I could work along side the video. like Scott I go back to them for a refresher every now an then :lol: :lol: I believe this has helped me a tremendous amount, I am not saying for one minute that reading the manual shouldn't give the info you require but some of the tutorials give added tips so for me they are well worth the time they take to study.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby Rcnewcomb » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:27 am

It's going to cut down on lots of time spent using the Finishing tool.

Just to clarify for anyone reading this thread later, The run time on the finishing toolpath is always the same whether you run a roughing toolpath or not. The finishing toolpath has no "knowledge" of whether or not a roughing toolpath was used.
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Re: Tool for Finish 3D No Edit?

Postby wmgeorge » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:46 am

So here is the final result. I set the Roughing Toolpath Material Left at .02 this allowed the Finishing Path to be ran a lot faster than you would normally do, hence the job got done sooner. :D Roughing bit .250 Ball nose, Finish .125 Ball nose. My preferred finish was to be an oil finish, but none on hand. Notice the detail on the bear, even the bear claw nails.
This just the Bear, I will add text for the customer, sand and finish the rest.
IMG_3663.JPG

IMG_3664.JPG

IMG_3665.JPG
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