Amana tools vs. cheap ebay engraving bits?

[jaru-eri]

Has anybody here compared the expensive insert knifes from https://www.toolstoday.com/in-groove-cn ... nives.html with the cheap chinese v-bits from Ebay? You can get almost ten of these cheap bits for the same price as one of the insert knifes from Amana.

Are there anybody here with excperiences?

[Wayne Locke]

If you are referring to the Kyocera bits sold by Drillman on Ebay, they are very good and unbelievably inexpensive. Kyocera claims they are made in the US. They have a very sharp point and seem to last a long time. I cut some wood blocks for an artist who makes Japanese wood cut prints. The blocks have some very fine details which these bits handle with ease. I think that they no not come larger than 1/4" which could be a problem in some situations. I swear by them.

[martin54]

What you might not have taken into account is that once you have bought an insert tool then from that point on you only need to buy the inserts & often one tool will take a range of different inserts so you could buy one tool & a range of different angled inserts so saving money in the long term. A lot depends on how much use it will get, if its occassional use then it may be cheaper to use something else, if its frequent use or production then it may work out cheaper.

I don't actually own any because it's probably not cost effective & I find the cheaper bits do the job I need them to. You do need to be careful when buying cheap chinese bits as often the carbide quality is low or the angles aren't as stated so it can be a bit of a lottery, once you have found a reasonable seller as some have done with drillman1 then its case of figuring out whats best for you & the work you do

[scottp55]

+1 for Drillman1, BUY never bought that Amana because heard a couple bad stories before I bought machine.
Kyocera's for years as a go to bit for .125" shank for all VBits/and 2f Ups and Downcuts. All hardwood experience here though(including the harder Exotics).
His shipping and price are hard to beat...and cut quality as good as many more expensive brands which I also use(Vortex,Onsrud,etc.)
scott

[Tailmaker]

I have the Amana In-Groove gadget but barely use it anymore. The blades are very sharp and cut well but also very brittle and running the usual engraving speed has broken the tip of several blades. I don't care shelling out any more money for the $20 blades.

As mentioned earlier the Kyovera bits are very good. However, at least the 1/4" bits have a distinct flat at the tip but still worked well for most of what I need.

Actually, I bought a few of the cheap 1.5" dia. Chinese V-bits with 60, 90 1nd 120 degrees. They have a 6mm shank (not 1/4") and cost about 6 bucks.
I am not sure about the durability but I found them to leave a very clean surface, even in tear-prone softwood and better than some other more expensive bits.
You can not beat these big bits that can go deep for a finish cut without water lines.
I am just a bit weary to run them at high speed, thinking of the 6mm shank breaking and the heavy head zooming across the shop.

[jaru-eri]

If you are referring to the Kyocera bits sold by Drillman on Ebay, they are very good and unbelievably inexpensive. Kyocera claims they are made in the US. They have a very sharp point and seem to last a long time. I cut some wood blocks for an artist who makes Japanese wood cut prints. The blocks have some very fine details which these bits handle with ease. I think that they no not come larger than 1/4" which could be a problem in some situations. I swear by them.

I was referring to these https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pc-6mm-shank- ... :rk:2:pf:0 These are cheaper for 5 bits than one Amana tool in groove blade, so if they deliver the same clean cut, it would be a very much better option than spending money on expensive brand name tools.

What is the flat tip point diameter on the Kyocera bits?

[jaru-eri]

What you might not have taken into account is that once you have bought an insert tool then from that point on you only need to buy the inserts & often one tool will take a range of different inserts so you could buy one tool & a range of different angled inserts so saving money in the long term. A lot depends on how much use it will get, if its occassional use then it may be cheaper to use something else, if its frequent use or production then it may work out cheaper.

I don't actually own any because it's probably not cost effective & I find the cheaper bits do the job I need them to. You do need to be careful when buying cheap chinese bits as often the carbide quality is low or the angles aren't as stated so it can be a bit of a lottery, once you have found a reasonable seller as some have done with drillman1 then its case of figuring out whats best for you & the work you do

The Amana tool "In Groove" insert blades cost over $ 20.- each, so they are not inexpensive..

[Wayne Locke]

I have never had anything but an extremely sharp, fine tip on the Kyocera bits.

[martin54]

I don't use insert tools so don't know the price for spare blades but they do look to be expensive from your reply.

According to his sales page the standard flat size on his 60 degree bits is 0.012" looks like he does bits with a smaller flat as well
He doesn't ship to the UK or didn't when I last checked so have no personal experience of the bits.

If you google drillman1 you will find a link to him on ebay

[scottp55]

All Drillman's .125" shank VBits(engraving bits) have a Standard .0125"flat, Unless specified as "Sharp"...then it's a .005" flat.
ONLY bit in the .125" shanks I won't buy again is the 30 degree "Sharp", as a friend and I have gone through 6, and tip always breaks, regardless of Feeds/Speeds.
60 degree "Sharp" cuts like a dream the half dozen times I've cut in figured Walnut,Sugar Maple...will by again.
Bought half dozen times for two machines,and stopped measuring them after third time, as always identical measurements.
Flat sounds big, but if you have them in a plastic qty.50 container, and accidentally rest your forearm on them...They WILL draw blood.
I'm nearsighted as heck, but can't see the flats on the 1/8" unless I go my 4X visor.
Tailmaker, Gotta go check my 30,45,60,90 degree .25" shanks with a 10X loupe...never noticed a flat, BUT never looked either.
scott

[jaru-eri]

ONLY bit in the .125" shanks I won't buy again is the 30 degree "Sharp", as a friend and I have gone through 6, and tip always breaks, regardless of Feeds/Speeds.
scott

Do they break in all kind of materials. I need some thiny bits for engraving in woods like maple, birch, beech etc. on max 0.5mm deep cuts. Do you think they will break also for that purpose?

[scottp55]

I was cutting Sugar Maple,Cherry,Black Walnut, and Ebony on my tries. Started at .6 IPS X,Y ,.4 Plunge, at 17K with .05" passes, and went as low as .4, .35,18K with .02"passes, and then gave up.
Supposedly made for scrimshaw type work, and MAYBE with your depth of cut .3, .3, 17K IT MIGHT work?

We've all been surprised by the TINY Chinese Tapered Ball Noses with price and cut quality!
Maybe try the Chinese engraving bits, Drillman's 30* "Sharp" (get a five pack), but if looking for a .005" flat, You can't get much better than Onsrud 30* .25" shank Engraving bit #37-21 IMHO for clean Tiny cuts and sturdiness. NOT sure about overseas, but in US, best shipping speed and price was Ballew Saw, and now order Onsruds through them for speed of shipping equal to Drillman's.

Tailmaker says he's had good luck with some Chinese (I've had 2 bad, 1 excellent experience)....I'd say try them all, and then decide what your go to will be?

Drillman1's New .125" shank 60 degree "Sharp"(.005"flat IS sturdy), and hopefully a 45* will come soon?.

Drillman1 used to have a "Mix" that went 30-120degree and included 2 30* "Sharps".....couldn't find it in a quick search, but was my first intro to him and well worth it....I know I asked him one for a friend...and he made the mix available again...maybe worth an e-mail?

Hope any helped, and anybody with good luck with the 30 degree "Sharp" settings PLEASE chime in!
scott

[alan254]

I use solid carbide cutters mainly from Whiteside Machine in N Carolina the geometry is correct and they last.

[Fleming]

I have used the Amana insert bits for a several years. They are very long lasting as far as sharpness is concerned BUT the V-bit points become rounded very quickly and therefore become useless for doing V-Carving of fine text. For that type of work I have better luck with the Whiteside bits.