Burl advice needed

This forum is for general discussion regarding VCarve Pro
User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

My plow guy also runs a tree service. A guy wanted an "UGLY" White Oak cut down...almost TOTALLY burl!!
Darn Shame it's White Oak, but cut a piece wet yesterday, as I know as little about Oak burl as he does.
I cut the smallest one so I could jig it fast.
TIGHT bark inclusions in interesting patterns. no idea on the rest of the bigger ones.
About Half have burl on 3/4s of the tree...rest circle tree trunk 100%
I bought 3 full ball one's, and got 3 free small odd shapes,
BUT How much do you think he could get for the truckload(Ball Park Guesstimates VERY welcome!)
Most have 3-6" of trunk attached, bu almost whole tree was burl, and he's older than me, so not always possible so he can lift it.
RAIN all day yesterday,and he'll seal end grain and saw cuts today....cut 2days ago in drizzle with 4" of snow on ground.

At least now he knows how to cut burls, and will keep a sharp eye out now(and bring it here first
He's been offered $200 for the truckload by a guy who does odds and ends for LLBEAN, but turned it down as it's too much hand work for that price.
His brother DOES own a WoodMizer FYI.
Here's the very smallest piece I surfaced, to see what was what.
Truck pics next.
scott
Attachments
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 1 1.jpg
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 1 2.jpg
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 1 3.jpg
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 1 4.jpg
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 2 1.jpg
12.21.18 W OAK BURL1 SIDE 2 2.jpg
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Truckload pics.....There's also a piece as big around as the biggest in pics included, but over 6' in length and 100% burl and no good place to cut, and he could NOT lift it into the truck.
I've recommended asking Huston and Company(just down the road),My wood turning friend, and contacting wood turning clubs, but thought some of you guys would give me good advice.

Too bad it's not Sugar Maple, Black Walnut, or such
ANY advice welcome about truckload price(most desirable for him) cutting, selling individually, or slicing(but slicing is last option) welcome!
Seeing a truck come up the drive with a load of burl was kind of a nice distraction
Happy holidays to all!
scott
Attachments
12.21.18 WHITE OAK BURL TRUCKLOAD1.jpg
12.21.18 WHITE OAK BURL TRUCKLOAD2.jpg
12.21.18 WHITE OAK BURL TRUCKLOAD3.jpg
12.21.18 WHITE OAK BURL TRUCKLOAD4.jpg
12.21.18 WHITE OAK BURL TRUCKLOAD5.jpg
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

Uzumati
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:05 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Axiom AR8 Pro+

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by Uzumati »

The wood Turning market in the northeast is on fire I would try a wood Turning forum to get top dollar for those burls, if I was closer the truck would be heading north right now. A bowl I could sell for 50 bucks down here easily sells for 100-150 up there.

Vases and Clocks, and Bowls and Platters oh my.......

jerry carney
Vectric Craftsman
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:16 pm
Model of CNC Machine: shopbot desktop
Location: Crete Il.

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by jerry carney »

Scot, nice wood ,I know your creative juices are flowing looking at that load. Merry Xmas. Jerry

User avatar
martin54
Vectric Archimage
Posts: 7339
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Gerber 48, Triac PC, Isel fixed gantry
Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by martin54 »

Why is slicing the last option? You don't really know what you have got with that lot until you slice it, who knows what treasures may be hiding inside. Could make a huge difference to what people are prepared to pay & what you want to keep for yourself, plus it is easier to ship if smaller bits which would interest more folk again affecting the price.
I know for you it is not all about the money but think what you might be able to buy with it :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Lot of good points. Contacted Maine chapter of wood turners and left message....30 members and meet at a Rockler store 30 miles North.
Emailed my friend with the BIG wood turning shop, to see if he knows anybody smaller.

Yep Jerry...drooling a bit, especially after a "friend"price so he can get use of his truck back without cleaning out a shed:)
I'd have to clean out my greenhouse/dicker with cheapskates/ and answer the phone...too close to work for me! :)

5.5" Z is restrictive for me, and THAT is a LOT of good size burl! Have to buy a pull-saw that can cut 18+" and do by hand....or hire. Should NOT have sold my Jonsered or Inca 3 wheeler band saw when I was broke. :oops:
Piece below I had to set Z1/Z2 at .01" and safe-Z in machine software to the same to cut a flat for the base....And STILL the cut was .52"(reduced stepover to almost 3D, and cutting edge is only .5", and started file so it lead with the cutter edge).
12.22.18 WHITE OAK BURL 2 BOTTOM1.jpg
This piece is one of the free pieces,so I can suss out character. Bark inclusions still tight, and at no point except inner bark can I make a thumbnail mark.
It's kind of a "banana" shape....will sleep on it, but thinking a smooth fluting to get into interesting shape and wood, and then maybe a deeper elliptical dish?
12.22.18 WHITE OAK BURL 2 BOTTOM SANDED.jpg
12.22.18 WHITE OAK BURL 2 BOTTOM SEALED.jpg
Martin, once you cut it/slab it/etc. , you eliminate options.Couple pieces are full round vase shapes already....I bought 2 almost perfect Balls, plan on cutting in half for 2 shallow bowls.
NOT a wood turner, but seems they prefer green wood? Only piece that lends itself to slabbing is the 4-5' long/16-18" diameter one he couldn't get in the truck by himself.
Slicing for a clock face, is totally different than a platter....guys looking at individual pieces will have different ideas, and know what they're looking for(unlike me...but learning as fast as I can).
I'm hoping Martin that that piece I surfaced, and maybe 2 more projects will help him sell it. No voids or insects so far!! :)
I'll look in the truck better the next time he shows up, and have him bring a long bar chainsaw....MUST be a couple pieces that we can cut on a natural fault line so people can see it better.

May cherry pick a couple more pieces :D

Thanks all for info so far!
scott
Interesting patterns...not what I'm used to in my limited experience with burl. Bark SEEMS like maybe it will come off easy judging by the rapid shrinkage of the cambium.....need to make a maple spud, and try to remove some in a couple days....some comes off by hand already, leaving a really nice solid organic wood shape.
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

CA'd that burl base to a carrier board, and rough shaped it using Fluting toolpath set at .125" "smooth 100%", until I got the ends looking ok.
Then Increased depth of flute with same settings, until the curve looked good in the burl....still undecided on shape of "bowl" indent.
Quite probably shallow for gem display like the "Yellow Birch Burl" in last pic.
No rush,as a with carrier board I can clamp it exactly again with my fences.....Interesting wood!!!
Nobody in the NorthEast wants a deal??
He's pretty impatient...think he'd take $500 USD?
scott
This is still the second small Free scrap he gave me:) (except the last pic of the Birch Bobtail Farm gave me:)
Attachments
12.23.18 WHITE OAK BURL 1 SIDE 2 1.jpg
12.23.18 WHITE OAK BURL 1 SIDE 2 2.jpg
12.23.18 WHITE OAK BURL 1 SIDE 2 3.jpg
12.23.18 WHITE OAK BURL 1 SIDE 2 4.jpg
9.30.18 YELLOW BIRCH BURL 1.jpg
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

garylmast
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 1580
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by garylmast »

Last year I had Four Bradford Pear Trees with about 16" trunks taken down and decided to save the trunks which was about 12-foot each. After sitting for a year, I bought an Alaskan Saw Mill and a chain saw from Sears for about $350. Other than my mind needs to stop telling me I'm still 20 and I got a good workout, there was enough lumber to offset the cost of the equipment. I cut them in 2" and 4" thickness.

Gary
Attachments
Capture.JPG

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Actually bought one of those(and a longer bar for my Jonsered) when I was 40+.....DANGEROUS in a wheelchair:)
Ventilated a pair of hiking boot toes, and then bought Kevlar boots...and still killed my back:)
Considered making a special sawbuck for burls and borrowing a friend with chainsaw, or special handsaw myself...but a lot of work now I'm 60+ :D
In New England? Dicker!!!! My Gram would roll over in her grave if you didn't :D
Pretty soon I'll have bought all the sweet pieces if you wait:)
scott
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Decided after Burl 3 cut yesterday, to buy the truckload if still available at the same "friend" price....of course called today and no answer.......
Probably Santa saw it, and distributed to his Elves :cry:
12.25.18 BURL3 BOTTOM 1.jpg
12.25.18 BURL3 BOTTOM 2.jpg
Decided just to use opposite end of carrier board, as I can just flip ends and still be registered for cutting on my fences.
12.25.18 BURL 1 AND 3 TOP CARIERED.jpg
12.25.18 BURL 1 AND 3 TOP CARIERED 2.jpg
I first cut it with a long Fluting toolpath like Burl 1, and hoped to get below heartwood for a small light colored spot surrounded by Heartwood.....BUT there was a little Black dot that got bigger:(
So swapped to a MUCH shorter fluting vector Against the grain, and interesting shape turned UGLY, BUT started to get interesting :)
When I stopped......it looked like an Native American warrior with a shield.....but after sanding.....this is what I got......kinda of a Rorschach test...if you Squint, it looks like Something :D
12.25.18 BURL3 TOP 2.jpg
HOPE I didn't lose out on it!
1 year per inch for drying time....keep me busy till I die...but cutting green gives faster more immediate kinda nice results that I thought!
scott
Oh....loose knot would be perfect to take out and add Opal/gem.....it virtually dead center of the piece. :)
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

dang....Guy that offered $200USD Saturday just dickered him down to $575.....My "Friend" price was 400 and spent the morning cleaning a space.
I'm not a wood turner...but still it was fun! STILL have 5 more I Cherry Picked out of the truck though! :)
Ya see some special wood at a good price....BUY IT!!
I lost out by 4 hours :cry:
scott
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

tomgardiner
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:49 pm
Model of CNC Machine: FMT Patriot 4 x8

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by tomgardiner »

I'm curious, what is the drying schedule for burls? Does the one year per inch air dry rule apply?

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Good question Tom!
Might have been able to tell you on White Oak burls in a decade(OR decayed inside if left uncut) :)
My primary concern when he told me about the tree job, was to search for best way to harvest and cut...this was good for him;
https://philholtan.wordpress.com/2015/0 ... ell-burls/

ALMOST the same thing was this;
https://philholtan.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... rl-hunter/

Bobtail Farm brought me 3, and each was different(he cut FOR my Machine's small size and 5.5"Z...NOT for value except to me)..see;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30001&p=221392#p221392

Birch burl was almost totally air dried(gave my moisture meter to the guy Dad gave the second Desktop to, as he bought for the company he gave away 2 Julys ago:(
Haven't purchased another one yet, as most of my wood was kiln dried and been lying in garage for 22 yrs.
And Birch hasn't budged a fraction since cut, and 8 layers oil mix applied...it was like a sponge!

And the now 9/4 15X22" S2S Sugar Maple is still within an 1/8" of flat, and was cut and sealed the same day I received it..only 3 coats so far, and house is running warmer and drier than normal,
at 74F/30-35%RH for health reasons.

Pin Cherry and these JUST cut White Oak burls are a totally different story(may be a different thread, as IF cut totally wet...sanded to 600G IMMEDIATELY and then oil finished....
VERY pleasant small ripples show and reflect light Nice!
Jury is still out though, as only cut Cherry in August, and Oak 24and 25'th.
White Oak burl I cut by hand along the pith line on 24'th by hand saw...(boy am I out of shape:) ) might have a shade of spalting :)
JUST put on carrier board after doing bark side...now to surface,sand, and seal.

STILL researching, but not as hard now that I missed out.
All depends if turning, cutting wet shapes on CNC like me, slabbing, etc.
DID bookmark some;

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/learn ... l-dilemma/

https://www.woodmagazine.com/materials- ... s-in-burls

ALMOST like asking what the best machine or bit is apparently;

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+wa ... 36&bih=714

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+wa ... 36&bih=714

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+wa ... 36&bih=714

BUT after checking some sites...WOW! $$$$$$$$

https://farwestforest.com/product-categ ... ure/burls/

http://www.burlwoodonline.com/product-c ... price-desc

All I know is I'm having Fun, and making mistakes(learning) as I go :D
out to shop,
scott
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

MarkJohnston
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:51 pm
Model of CNC Machine: CAMaster MC4848
Location: Prescott AZ

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by MarkJohnston »

Scott you are such a great source to this forum.

Thank you for all you do and I hope you will have a great 2019.

Mark

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: Burl advice needed

Post by scottp55 »

Thanks Mark!!
Means a lot!!

I'm sure there's a good proportion of people that say "Won't that guy just Shut Up!"
Do tend to ramble about stuff most people will never use:)
Time to start another useless thread "Wet White Oak Burls" :D

Been setting up and babysitting Burl 3 all day!

Free burl he gave me that had been on the ground when he cut the tree, was virtually a "Learning Day" waste!!! :oops:
12.24.18 UNMENTIONABLE BURL 2 SIDE 2.jpg
DID look more like Black Walnut than White Oak, and other side looked better............foam brush SOAKED it with oil/rosen/thinner mix for an hour..be dry in the new Year:)

Thanks again for the kind words.
Newbie at this particular stuff.
scott
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.

Post Reply