Hello All:
I'm totally new to the world of CNC woodworking
Recently purchaced a Piranha FX and am on a steep learning curve. So far I've burned up a couple of my old router bits and made quite a pile of scrap wood. My first question is about feed rates. Is it better to run too slow or kind of push feed rates. I've used hand held routers for years and my ears tell me when I'm leaning on my cutters so i've slowed my feed rates for my little Piranha. So far I can't get a decent finish on my projects and my bits seem to be heating up. Using 1/4". straight flutes and spiral upcuts, 1/8" depth of plunge, 15 IPM cutting Poplar and clear Pine
All thought and input is welcome
Jim Adams AKA Blastdad
New to CNC
- Rcnewcomb
- Vectric Archimage
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Re: New to CNC
This means the RPMs are too high and/or the move speed is too slow. What RPM setting is the router or spindle set on?burned
- Randall Newcomb
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out, another good day in the shop
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out, another good day in the shop
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- Vectric Wizard
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Re: New to CNC
15ipm is slow, and probably why your bits are heating up. I run my bits between 160ipm and 200ipm on my probotix meteor. Slower in harder hardwood, faster in softwoods.
- martin54
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Re: New to CNC
Your piranha probably isn't rigid enough for the sort of feed rates that 4DThinkers machine runs at but you do need to look at bringing the feed rate up, as Randall says its a combination of rpm for router & feed rate across material. The principal is the same as with your hand held router, your ears will tell you when it is cutting correctly4DThinker wrote:15ipm is slow, and probably why your bits are heating up. I run my bits between 160ipm and 200ipm on my probotix meteor. Slower in harder hardwood, faster in softwoods.
You are probably not only using to slow a feed rate you are probably also running your router far to fast, your best bet is to run your own tests in a piece of scrap, set up some cuts with varying speed & feed settings, once you get close then you can start fine tuning until you are happy
You could also ask the question on the shark forum, more people on their will be running the same machine as you
https://www.nextwaveautomation.com/forums/
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- Vectric Wizard
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Re: New to CNC
I'd try to run at least 50-75ipm, and dial the rpm down to about 10,000.
If rigidity is still an issue, take shallower cuts, rather than slowing down.
If rigidity is still an issue, take shallower cuts, rather than slowing down.
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com
- sharkcutup
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Re: New to CNC
Factored Variables
Spindle Speed (RPMS)
Feed Rate (IPM)
Depth of Cut (Decimal Inches)
Wood Types (Hardwood Versus Softwood)
Direction of cut (Conventional versus Climb and cutting with wood grain or cutting against the wood grain)
CNC Machine (Not all are Alike)
Router Bit Type (again not all are alike)
The above are some of the most important factor variables involved in carving/cutting on a router CNC machine. Each item listed above plays an important part on each
other when cutting/carving wood materials on a CNC router machine. Each item interacts with the other, when you adjust/change one item it acts/affects upon the other.
So in saying that it takes some time, effort, and several to sometimes many attempts to find the ultimate process carving /cutting conditions.
Chip Load (RPM + IPM + Depth of Cut)
Burning - Spindle speed too fast at set feed rate -- Slow Down spindle RPM
Chatter - Feed rate too fast at set Spindle RPM (bit is not allowed to sufficiently cut material) -- Either Slow Down feed rate or Increase spindle RPM
*** Note: Chatter also occurs when cutting against certain grain structures (may want to look at changing direction (conventional vs climb) of cut.
I am no expert by any means, I am just providing some of the experiences that I have had over the years since I have been using my CNC machine. The above is just a
condensed version of the many experiences I have had. It is by no means a complete list!
There are so many variables involved in a particular cutting/carving environment somewhat like mother nature you never know what to expect!!!
Have a GREAT DAY!
Sharkcutup
Spindle Speed (RPMS)
Feed Rate (IPM)
Depth of Cut (Decimal Inches)
Wood Types (Hardwood Versus Softwood)
Direction of cut (Conventional versus Climb and cutting with wood grain or cutting against the wood grain)
CNC Machine (Not all are Alike)
Router Bit Type (again not all are alike)
The above are some of the most important factor variables involved in carving/cutting on a router CNC machine. Each item listed above plays an important part on each
other when cutting/carving wood materials on a CNC router machine. Each item interacts with the other, when you adjust/change one item it acts/affects upon the other.
So in saying that it takes some time, effort, and several to sometimes many attempts to find the ultimate process carving /cutting conditions.
Chip Load (RPM + IPM + Depth of Cut)
Burning - Spindle speed too fast at set feed rate -- Slow Down spindle RPM
Chatter - Feed rate too fast at set Spindle RPM (bit is not allowed to sufficiently cut material) -- Either Slow Down feed rate or Increase spindle RPM
*** Note: Chatter also occurs when cutting against certain grain structures (may want to look at changing direction (conventional vs climb) of cut.
I am no expert by any means, I am just providing some of the experiences that I have had over the years since I have been using my CNC machine. The above is just a
condensed version of the many experiences I have had. It is by no means a complete list!
There are so many variables involved in a particular cutting/carving environment somewhat like mother nature you never know what to expect!!!
Have a GREAT DAY!
Sharkcutup
V-Carve Pro Tips, Gadget Tips & Videos
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 11.554
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 11.554
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- Vectric Craftsman
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Re: New to CNC
Jim,
I have a Piranha FX, purchased in June 2018 and have used it a lot until very recently (I upgraded to an Axiom AR8 Pro+ and have been spending most of my shop time on the new learning curve for the Axiom and Aspire software.)
I agree with the posters who have advised you to increase the feed rate you are using--my Piranha uses a DW611 router and I usually keep the speed dial on the router set at about 5 (out of possible highest setting of 6). Unfortunately, I don't really know the rpm rate I'm getting but I'm assuming it could be as high as 15K....I might try to figure out how to measure that one of these days.
I typically program my projects on the Piranha to cut at 100 ipm, again, I have not measured the actual feed rates I'm getting.
I took special measures to make sure that the router is very firmly held in its mount. The NWA router mount design, as you have probably heard already at the NWA forum, is flawed (in my opinion.) Briefly, the 4 bolt holes used for attaching the mount to the gantry carriage are precisely aligned, such that when the bolts are in place there is virtually no flex at all in the mount clamp that must be adjusted to hold the router body. This means that, for all practical purposes, the adjustment bolt on the front of the mount cannot tighten the mount clamp around the router because it is trying to work against the two mounting bolts toward the front of the mount clamp. The solution, at least in my case, is to slightly enlarge those two front mounting bolt holes so that the tightening bolt can do its job, then tighten down the mounting bolts (and use lock washers on the two front ones.) In addition, I used a single wrap of soft, thin vinyl strip between the router body and the mount in order to insure a good grip on the router. Many NWA customers have complained about the mounting system NWA has designed, and I cannot exactly figure out why the company has not fixed it...it's not that hard to do, but many new CNC users are reluctant to modify an expensive machine even if the evidence shows that they should.
I should also note, this forum enjoys advice and troubleshooting from many more experienced CNC users than the NWA forum does. Even though NWA products are not highly represented among the membership here, many of the questions you will have as you traverse the learning curve will probably be answered more thoroughly and with better insights at this forum than what you may find currently at the dedicated NWA site.
I have a Piranha FX, purchased in June 2018 and have used it a lot until very recently (I upgraded to an Axiom AR8 Pro+ and have been spending most of my shop time on the new learning curve for the Axiom and Aspire software.)
I agree with the posters who have advised you to increase the feed rate you are using--my Piranha uses a DW611 router and I usually keep the speed dial on the router set at about 5 (out of possible highest setting of 6). Unfortunately, I don't really know the rpm rate I'm getting but I'm assuming it could be as high as 15K....I might try to figure out how to measure that one of these days.
I typically program my projects on the Piranha to cut at 100 ipm, again, I have not measured the actual feed rates I'm getting.
I took special measures to make sure that the router is very firmly held in its mount. The NWA router mount design, as you have probably heard already at the NWA forum, is flawed (in my opinion.) Briefly, the 4 bolt holes used for attaching the mount to the gantry carriage are precisely aligned, such that when the bolts are in place there is virtually no flex at all in the mount clamp that must be adjusted to hold the router body. This means that, for all practical purposes, the adjustment bolt on the front of the mount cannot tighten the mount clamp around the router because it is trying to work against the two mounting bolts toward the front of the mount clamp. The solution, at least in my case, is to slightly enlarge those two front mounting bolt holes so that the tightening bolt can do its job, then tighten down the mounting bolts (and use lock washers on the two front ones.) In addition, I used a single wrap of soft, thin vinyl strip between the router body and the mount in order to insure a good grip on the router. Many NWA customers have complained about the mounting system NWA has designed, and I cannot exactly figure out why the company has not fixed it...it's not that hard to do, but many new CNC users are reluctant to modify an expensive machine even if the evidence shows that they should.
I should also note, this forum enjoys advice and troubleshooting from many more experienced CNC users than the NWA forum does. Even though NWA products are not highly represented among the membership here, many of the questions you will have as you traverse the learning curve will probably be answered more thoroughly and with better insights at this forum than what you may find currently at the dedicated NWA site.
- adze_cnc
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Re: New to CNC
If the DW611 and DWP611 share the same specs: https://servicenet.dewalt.com/documents ... DWP611.pdf it appears from this manual that it is just shy of 25,000 rpm.laflippin wrote:...my Piranha uses a DW611 router and I usually keep the speed dial on the router set at about 5 (out of possible highest setting of 6). Unfortunately, I don't really know the rpm rate I'm getting but I'm assuming it could be as high as 15K....I might try to figure out how to measure that one of these days.
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- Vectric Craftsman
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Re: New to CNC
Thanks, adze...you are absolutely correct. I may need to replace a few of my older brain cells, unfortunately, the warranty has expired
Re: New to CNC
Thanks Everyone
Your input was helpful and appreciated
Jim
Your input was helpful and appreciated
Jim