VCarve inlays and flat depth

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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:05 pm

scottp55 wrote:Not seeing why VCarving with an engraving bit isn't working...been doing it for quite some time(and as recently as today with a .025"flat).
Using VCP9 now...but it worked in 8.
scott


I am going to have to try it again. Maybe they fixed it in intervening versions? Last I tried it was at least two years ago I would say.

I mostly work in wood these days and those cutters don't have a flat depth.

Thanks!
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:08 pm

ger21 wrote:
edwardharp wrote:It all depends on the size of the inlays, the grain of the wood, the species of the wood, etc. And the limitations of the machine for that matter. I use a CNC milling machine because I also do metal and other materials and there is a limit to how fast I can spin the V cutter.


Can you mount an auxiliary high speed spindle to your machine?
That's really the problem here. With a high speed spindle, you probably wouldn't be having the issues that you are.


I can actually. There are a few options. And I am thinking about upgrading my machine to one that is 50% faster.

Considering how many of these inlays I am doing I should at least try a companion spindle. Those can do 20,000 RPM. But ugh are they loud!

The worst problem will be that changing tools will mean different offsets. I wont be able to mount end mills on the companion spindle. There is also a water cooled main spindle but it would interfere with my metal work.

Good suggestion though. Thanks.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:19 pm

ger21 wrote:
edwardharp wrote:It all depends on the size of the inlays, the grain of the wood, the species of the wood, etc. And the limitations of the machine for that matter. I use a CNC milling machine because I also do metal and other materials and there is a limit to how fast I can spin the V cutter.


Can you mount an auxiliary high speed spindle to your machine?
That's really the problem here. With a high speed spindle, you probably wouldn't be having the issues that you are.


Any idea how fast a spindle I would need? Would 10,000 RPM be fast enough?
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby BDM » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:50 pm

edwardharp wrote:
I can actually. There are a few options. And I am thinking about upgrading my machine to one that is 50% faster.

Considering how many of these inlays I am doing I should at least try a companion spindle. Those can do 20,000 RPM. But ugh are they loud!

The worst problem will be that changing tools will mean different offsets. I wont be able to mount end mills on the companion spindle. There is also a water cooled main spindle but it would interfere with my metal work.

Good suggestion though. Thanks.


I don't have a vast experience with different spindles, but they certainly don't have to be loud. The air cooled one our school has is so quiet that the first time I used it, I had to look closely at the collet to see that it actually was spinning. Why wouldn't you be able to use an end mill on a companion spindle?
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Adrian » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:41 pm

My spindle runs at up to 18000 rpm and you can have a normal conversation right by it at that speed. If it's really loud I expect it's a router masquerading as a spindle. ;)
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:31 am

I ended up trying a Kress companion spindle capable of 29,000 RPM. Reasonably quiet.

First few attempts did not turn out as well as I hoped. I will try messing with feeds and see if I can coax it into behave better.

I am also crunching away at how all this works and how I might accomplish this without the start depth thing so that I can control cut depth.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby potzmannwoodshop » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:56 pm

Adrian wrote:My spindle runs at up to 18000 rpm and you can have a normal conversation right by it at that speed. If it's really loud I expect it's a router masquerading as a spindle. ;)


Mine turns at 18k too, and a conversation isnt easy while is it running. 3phase 10hp Air Cooled Industrial spindle with Yaskawa drives.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Woodwasp » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:37 am

My way of handling this issue is to write 2 tool paths for the male inlay one with a shallow cut to remove the bulk above the start depth, then a second cut at the start depth which removes only a small amount of material. Save both tool paths in the one file being very careful to get them in the right order. When you send the g-code to your machine it will cut one after the other, Yes this take a little longer but we are striving for successful fine detail not speed. I find this method tends to eliminate chip out and results in fine inlay detail.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby SCG » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:14 pm

So, I've tried repeatedly to implement the use of vcarve feature, pocket, mirrored male inlay plug for vcarve inlays. I've followed every instructional resource available with no success. The mirrored "male plug" is always too deep and too loose for a proper fit. I've used the .2 flat depth for Pocket and .1 start depth, .1 flat depth for mirrored male inlay plug. It's wrong and never works. At least this is the case for VCP 9. My only" almost successful" successful v inlay was .15 pocket flat depth , .075 start depth and .075 flat depth on reversed male plug. It was very sloppy with way too much gap between the pocket and inlay piece. May have worked in VCP 8 but not in VCP 9. I no longer try to use this method.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby FixitMike » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:59 am

SCG wrote:So, I've tried repeatedly to implement the use of vcarve feature, pocket, mirrored male inlay plug for vcarve inlays. I've followed every instructional resource available with no success. The mirrored "male plug" is always too deep and too loose for a proper fit. I've used the .2 flat depth for Pocket and .1 start depth, .1 flat depth for mirrored male inlay plug. It's wrong and never works. At least this is the case for VCP 9. My only" almost successful" successful v inlay was .15 pocket flat depth , .075 start depth and .075 flat depth on reversed male plug. It was very sloppy with way too much gap between the pocket and inlay piece. May have worked in VCP 8 but not in VCP 9. I no longer try to use this method.


1. The flat depth on the male plug sets the gap.
2. The start depth of the male plug determines how far the plug extends into female. I make it .02" to .04" less than the flat depth of the female.. The instructions, in my opinion, don't sink the male plug far enough into the female.
3. When properly cut, the two pieces will almost lock in place.
4 Be sure to use the same V bit on both parts, and be sure its angle is what you have specified for the tool. I used the wrong angle bit once and the pieces did not fit together very well.

And a hint: Apply a coat or 2 of finish to the female material before cutting. It will make it easier to clean up the glue squeeze out. And be sure to clean up both pieces before putting them together. I use a dental pick to remove any tiny unwanted pieces.
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby LittleGreyMan » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:59 am

SCG wrote:So, I've tried repeatedly to implement the use of vcarve feature, pocket, mirrored male inlay plug for vcarve inlays. I've followed every instructional resource available with no success. The mirrored "male plug" is always too deep and too loose for a proper fit. I've used the .2 flat depth for Pocket and .1 start depth, .1 flat depth for mirrored male inlay plug. It's wrong and never works. At least this is the case for VCP 9. My only" almost successful" successful v inlay was .15 pocket flat depth , .075 start depth and .075 flat depth on reversed male plug. It was very sloppy with way too much gap between the pocket and inlay piece. May have worked in VCP 8 but not in VCP 9. I no longer try to use this method.


I do not know your knowledge about CNC and Vcarve. As you have only 1 post on this forum, I think you are not a long time user of Vcarve. So, your post sounds strange: you're arguing that this method doesn't work properly while several experienced users explain it works perfectly. You can find numerous examples of fine Vcarve inlay work on this forum.

I do not see any reason it would work with V8 and not with V9 as there is no fundamental change in this area AFAIK.

If you identified a bug, please report it to Vectric. If not, post a file that didn't work, and you will get the required help.
Best regards

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