VCarve inlays and flat depth

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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby FixitMike » Thu May 31, 2018 5:36 am

A V bit will only cut as deep as the pass depth entered into the tool information. If the total depth is more, it will take multiple passes. Note the description of the VCarve toolpath in Help-Help Contents.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Adrian » Thu May 31, 2018 7:20 am

FixitMike wrote:A V bit will only cut as deep as the pass depth entered into the tool information. If the total depth is more, it will take multiple passes. Note the description of the VCarve toolpath in Help-Help Contents.

I think it's the first move to the start depth that is the issue, because the Vinlay method is basically a hack it's using the start depth in a way that is not intended with material actually present rather than being a pocket etc. For that move it's a straight plunge without regard to the pass depth as there is no cutting going on as far as the software is concerned.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:12 pm

Adrian wrote:
FixitMike wrote:A V bit will only cut as deep as the pass depth entered into the tool information. If the total depth is more, it will take multiple passes. Note the description of the VCarve toolpath in Help-Help Contents.

I think it's the first move to the start depth that is the issue, because the Vinlay method is basically a hack it's using the start depth in a way that is not intended with material actually present rather than being a pocket etc. For that move it's a straight plunge without regard to the pass depth as there is no cutting going on as far as the software is concerned.


Thank you.

It would do Vectric much good to stop treating this as a hack and make it work for real. We would all benefit from that.

They seem to resist adding functionality like this. For example again, V cutter tip width. Not an issue with wood but definitely with metal because you could never use a cutter with a point on it. They break off. And because they do not account for the tip width, you get steps in the cutting and there are even articles they publish about that issue but they skirt around it rather than simply fixing it. They do have a tool that allows for a tip width but you cannot use that for VCarve operations.

As a software developer myself, I find this extremely frustrating because I know it wouldn't be that difficult to fix these things.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Adrian » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:37 pm

Vectric have commented in the past that the software is designed for wood not metal. Couldn't you use the engraving tool setup for a cutter with a flat tip as that type of cutter will work with a VCarve toolpath?
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:28 am

Adrian wrote:Vectric have commented in the past that the software is designed for wood not metal. Couldn't you use the engraving tool setup for a cutter with a flat tip as that type of cutter will work with a VCarve toolpath?


They suggested that but it doesn't work. You have to use a V cutting tool for VCarve paths.

And yes, I understand that software is originally designed with certain things in mind. The software I write for a living is used by hundreds of millions of people.

But here in the creative realm good things happen that are not expected. I heard about using VCarve operations to do inlays from Vectric. And they work really well. And you can have sharp corners.

They embrace it well enough to sell their software. They should embrace it well enough to support it a little. It wouldn't take that much effort and they would have happier and more productive users.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Adrian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:25 am

An engraving tool (as does a ballnose) works for VCarve toolpaths not just vbits. The engraving tool has the option of a flat bit so I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby adze_cnc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:59 pm

The software I write for a living


You're missing a golden opportunity. Vectric allows you to extend the capabilities of the product by writing gadgets. Perhaps you could write a "V-Inlay" gadget that behaves exactly as you want it to.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:32 am

adze_cnc wrote:
The software I write for a living


You're missing a golden opportunity. Vectric allows you to extend the capabilities of the product by writing gadgets. Perhaps you could write a "V-Inlay" gadget that behaves exactly as you want it to.


I will have to have a look.

I doubt I could hook in where I want to though. A lot went into their VCarve tool path generation. I just want to get a little control over passes, not tool paths.

But I will look anyway.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:33 am

Adrian wrote:An engraving tool (as does a ballnose) works for VCarve toolpaths not just vbits. The engraving tool has the option of a flat bit so I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.


I tried it. It did not work.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:48 am

adze_cnc wrote:
The software I write for a living


You're missing a golden opportunity. Vectric allows you to extend the capabilities of the product by writing gadgets. Perhaps you could write a "V-Inlay" gadget that behaves exactly as you want it to.


I looked and it's interesting but one would have to reproduce the entire thing to pull it off. And given their plugins are written in Lua, performance would probably be an issue not to mention all the knowledge one could have to scare up to produce those VCarve paths.

I've not written CAM software yet. 8)
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby Adrian » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:20 am

edwardharp wrote:
Adrian wrote:An engraving tool (as does a ballnose) works for VCarve toolpaths not just vbits. The engraving tool has the option of a flat bit so I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.


I tried it. It did not work.

What didn't work about it?
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby edwardharp » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:07 pm

Adrian wrote:
edwardharp wrote:
Adrian wrote:An engraving tool (as does a ballnose) works for VCarve toolpaths not just vbits. The engraving tool has the option of a flat bit so I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.


I tried it. It did not work.

What didn't work about it?


Sigh.

It was unable to generate paths.

I would not have said what I did about bits other than V bits if it did work. It was suggested by a Vectric support person so I tried it. It did not work.

I read an article about someone doing aluminum plaques with VCarve operations and he explained how Vectric helped him find a way to fix the steps in the cuts but it was less than ideal. His results looked pretty good to me though.

I have made something on the order of 250 unique aluminum name plates, plaques and signs using VCarve operations in aluminum and plastic. And hundreds more in wood. I make a lot of things with a lot of materials and processes. VCarve operations are very useful for decorative stuff, inlays, etc.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby scottp55 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:22 am

Not seeing why VCarving with an engraving bit isn't working...been doing it for quite some time(and as recently as today with a .025"flat).
Using VCP9 now...but it worked in 8.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby mtylerfl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 am

Hi Edward,

Perhaps you can post an example file that is not working for you. Many of us are puzzled why it's not. Posting a file we can look at would be helpful.
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Re: VCarve inlays and flat depth

Postby ger21 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:01 pm

edwardharp wrote:It all depends on the size of the inlays, the grain of the wood, the species of the wood, etc. And the limitations of the machine for that matter. I use a CNC milling machine because I also do metal and other materials and there is a limit to how fast I can spin the V cutter.


Can you mount an auxiliary high speed spindle to your machine?
That's really the problem here. With a high speed spindle, you probably wouldn't be having the issues that you are.
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