Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

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Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Mon May 28, 2018 1:27 am

A previous post I put up - http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29886 - the subject of the modeling resolution was brought up as the solution to how my model looked when I was previewing it. What I am not clear on at this point is does that Modeling resolution also effect how good the model looks carved? I don't think so but I want to make sure I'm not missing the point of that setting. Looking at the help files, it seems to be a setting that is specifically for the on screen resolution.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Adrian » Mon May 28, 2018 7:24 am

There are two resolutions at play. If you're not using 3D models (STL files, V3M files etc) then the first (the modelling resolution when creating a job) doesn't matter. It's the preview quality that effects the quality of the toolpath preview but that has no effect on the actual physical cutting whatsoever.

If you do have 3D models in the job then the resolution when you create a job is important and does effect the physical cut. Basically you want the resolution as high as you can with the actual job size being as close to the size of the 3D model as possible to maximise the number of pixels. How high you can go depends on the performance of your PC.

I'm sure the 3D experts will explain it in a better way but that's the gist of it as far as I'm aware.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Mon May 28, 2018 4:05 pm

I found the Tips and Tricks video on this subject and it is much clearer that the resolution does indeed have a direct bearing on how the model is carved on my machine.


SO - here is another question on this topic. In that thread that I referenced in my OP, users suggested that I decrease the job dimensions to the size of my model. I find this confusing though because I don't carve 'parts'. I am creating cabinet doors ( typically 12in X 32in ) and then my models are scaled and placed on the door - exactly where I want them. I frequently have a mix of vector and model elements so I do need to make sure everything carves exactly where I want it to. My projects also span two separate files, one for the left door and one for the right. So there is a lot of layout work that needs to be incorporated so when the set of doors are attached to my box, all the carved elements line up properly. I have templates created for the basic door shapes that I offer and the hinge mortise locations along with the cut out vectors and decorative panel bit routs are all preset and have to be considered when I place my models/vectors on the template file.


So what would be the approach to balancing a model resolution vs. my job dimensions? If I follow the advice given to just make my job dimensions slightly larger than the model component... how to do go about making sure the placement of this model is exactly where I want it to be in relation to hinge mortises and vector or 2D/2.5D elements?

This is all a bit confusing to me and not feeling very intuitive but I might not be thinking about this correctly. I'm still pretty used to using my old Carvewright software which made layout extremely easy when placing models/vector and 2D info on a template for a full sized door and making sure I got the max resolution and proper layout correct with very little fussing in the software.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby mtylerfl » Mon May 28, 2018 4:44 pm

Hi John,

To maximize resolution, create individual models on material just big enough to fit the model. This "packs" the model with pixels. (I typically set resolution at either Very High or Extremely High at this stage)

After all models are done, import them into your full-size material layout with a resolution setting high enough to minimize resolution loss. (I set the resolution either at Extremely High or Maximum at this stage, whichever is most suitable)

If you made the models on the larger material first, then resolution is very poor and there's little you can do to correct it later. Doing it as I described above will minimize resolution issues.

This is how I created the models for the Resolute Desk project that Chris Lovchik and I made last year for the CarveWright machine to carve. For example, the desk has many decorative vertical columns. The column models were not created on the full size material. Rather they were "assembled" from five sections I modeled individually on material size just a little larger than each section itself.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby mezalick » Mon May 28, 2018 4:55 pm

John,
Let me see if I can add a little more confusion to the mix.
If you did not already know..2-D cutting of vectors does not mean that the vectors need to be within the job set size.

For example, in the attached picture the job setup is 5" x 3".
The circle vector is a 10" diameter....
The toolpath is created and my machine will cut it........

So, for you, I might think about only using the job size for the components and do all the other vectors as needed ,,,,making sure your actual table size can accommodate the work..

Michael
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Mon May 28, 2018 6:10 pm

I think I see what you are talking about, Michael T. Is this process you describe possible with ONLY VCarvePro? I don't see export features in VCP and I suspect Aspire is required for your process??


Mike M, at first I was like, what the hell is he doing to me.. lol. However, I think I understand now
Here are screenshots of a job I am assembling right now. So if I follow your method that would mean I take the component model and place it on a job dimension slightly larger than the portion of the model that needs to be carved on the left or right door. Then I create the vectors for the rope v-carve, the outer vector that represents the shape of the door and the inner vector that would be routed with a decorative panel bit. These vectors would be placed off the center of the job dimension that contains the 3D model and at a scale that matches my requirements? ( seems to me using center is the only way to keep the layout intact )

Still seems like a confusing way to lay things out when compared to creating a job dimension that matches the exact size of the door I am going to produce.. ugh.

( the rectangle I have around my model is the vector boundary I was going to use so only the area I need of my model is carved on the job )
Attachments
Capture-left.PNG
left door file
Capture-right.PNG
right door file
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby mtylerfl » Mon May 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Yes, Aspire is what I used. I just realized we are in the VCarve section of the forum. Sorry, I thought you had Aspire.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby mezalick » Mon May 28, 2018 11:46 pm

John,
Your description is what I think I was trying to suggest,,,
Please know, this is more of an advanced process.. but you can benefit from it..
Once you see the finished product you'll start looking at project in a new way..

Just to add to the resolution topic...compare the number of pixels not used in your original example as compared to the new way you're suggesting..


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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:21 pm

I have to say that I am not comfortable with assembling my projects using this process, though I do understand how it could work. It seems to me there should be a better way to give me the best results possible while maintaining the ability to use my full job dimensions and layout tools ( guides and alignment tools ). By switching over to a process that forces me to draw vectors that don't fit on the job dimension board how do I supply a customer with a preview of their project? How do I verify things are going to look right when I can't see all my tool paths rendered on the job?

This sounds like a nightmare scenario... I'm confused as to why this seems so hard. Mike Tyler's advice sounds like it would be a simpler solution but it requires another $1300 investment for Aspire? :roll:
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Adrian » Tue May 29, 2018 5:15 pm

If it were me I would invest in Aspire. After all for a business it opens up so many other opportunities to make money you'll soon recover the cost.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Thu May 31, 2018 5:34 pm

I messaged support directly and sent them details on my door templates and my requirements with regards to mixing in 3D models. Charlotte gave me some great advice and a process that feels more intuitive.

I am separating my model from my door files now. I am essentially building my full design and noting the offset measurements of the model as it relates to my X0 Y0 on the door job dimensions, I delete the model though from the door file - this is where only my vector and pocket toolpaths reside. I am entering that offset info onto the Model job dimensions and this file is set to max resolution. To test that it's right ( my offset info ), I can copy and paste the model into my door job.

This seems more intuitive than placing my vectors onto a smaller model job. I can still preview the full set of toolpaths and send the customer a good preview.


It's funny that my brain is so hardwired to the way I did things before. What feels like limitations at first ( in VCarve ) ends up becoming additional flexibility once I can wrap my head around a process.

Thanks for all the advice so far! I am setting up the job used as my example in this thread, using Charlottes recommended procedure. Fingers are crossed ;)
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Rcnewcomb » Thu May 31, 2018 8:30 pm

It's funny that my brain is so hardwired to the way I did things before. What feels like limitations at first ( in VCarve ) ends up becoming additional flexibility once I can wrap my head around a process.


That is true for so much in this world.
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby mezalick » Thu May 31, 2018 8:54 pm

John,
I'm interested in seeing the final setup that you've developed..Can you post a screen shot ?
Thanks,
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Re: Job Dimension settings and Modeling Resolution

Postby Ton80 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:15 pm

yes... It would be easier for me to just record my screens and post a video on Youtube. I'll show my entire process which is partly now based on the info/suggestions I got from Vectric support. Sometime over the weekend hopefully.
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