Is it possible to view my cutting table?

[mtylerfl]

I just set my xy Zero wherever I want on the machine bed of my ShopBot and place the material at that reference point.

I've never had the need to draw a representation of the machine bed in the software. It doesn't matter.

As long as I place the material xy zero at the machine bed xy zero, thats all that matters.

[Adrian]

Now, let's say I want to cut some parts from a piece that's 22" x 48" x .703". I open above "template". I will now need to go reset the size of my material to 22x48x.703. My material will now be positioned in the lower left corner of my template. That works for many situations. But let's say I want to position my piece somewhere other than the lower left corner ether because it'll hit anchor points in better spots, or perhaps the table has a better spot towards the center where the table is more level and the spoilboard currently not hacked up as much. I can't pick up my piece and move it, I have to go to the "template layer" unlock it, Make sure it's all grouped together, them move the template over the piece.

Here's the odd part... I'm using a Shopbot. Their software, although somewhat flakey, can show me where my piece is on my worktable. I have a big suspicion that their control software was either made by Vectric, or is using parts of the Vectric engine. Layout is the exact same, graphics are the exact same.

The control software was written by ShopBot themselves but the preview part when you're running in offline mode was written by Vectric. Not at my ShopBot computer at the moment but from what I remember the preview software works on a fixed material/machine size and offsets the material from the bottom left of that. VCarve doesn't work like that.

In my case the vast majority of what I cut is 8'x 4' sheets so my ShopBot is setup with a fixed z-zero point and the ShopBot z-zero routine is programmed to move from there to the XY zero position of an 8x4 sheet automatically. Now if I put a smaller piece in the middle of the table I don't bother resetting XY zero to that material or changing the material size l I just place the vectors on the 8'x4' material size in VCarve and the machine will move to where the vectors are and start cutting automatically. No need to move or reset anything either in VCarve or the ShopBot software. That would work for you with no need to move the positions of the anchors.

Not the best way to work if you're doing 3D stuff though (I only do 2D and 2.5D these days) as running with a job size larger than reality messes up the pixel density in the job.

[Mikehell]

Now, let's say I want to cut some parts from a piece that's 22" x 48" x .703". I open above "template". I will now need to go reset the size of my material to 22x48x.703. My material will now be positioned in the lower left corner of my template. That works for many situations. But let's say I want to position my piece somewhere other than the lower left corner ether because it'll hit anchor points in better spots, or perhaps the table has a better spot towards the center where the table is more level and the spoilboard currently not hacked up as much. I can't pick up my piece and move it, I have to go to the "template layer" unlock it, Make sure it's all grouped together, them move the template over the piece.

Here's the odd part... I'm using a Shopbot. Their software, although somewhat flakey, can show me where my piece is on my worktable. I have a big suspicion that their control software was either made by Vectric, or is using parts of the Vectric engine. Layout is the exact same, graphics are the exact same.

The control software was written by ShopBot themselves but the preview part when you're running in offline mode was written by Vectric. Not at my ShopBot computer at the moment but from what I remember the preview software works on a fixed material/machine size and offsets the material from the bottom left of that. VCarve doesn't work like that.

In my case the vast majority of what I cut is 8'x 4' sheets so my ShopBot is setup with a fixed z-zero point and the ShopBot z-zero routine is programmed to move from there to the XY zero position of an 8x4 sheet automatically. Now if I put a smaller piece in the middle of the table I don't bother resetting XY zero to that material or changing the material size l I just place the vectors on the 8'x4' material size in VCarve and the machine will move to where the vectors are and start cutting automatically. No need to move or reset anything either in VCarve or the ShopBot software. That would work for you with no need to move the positions of the anchors.

Not the best way to work if you're doing 3D stuff though (I only do 2D and 2.5D these days) as running with a job size larger than reality messes up the pixel density in the job.

The shopbot preview software allows you to place the workpiece on the table in a position other than machine home. Was just hoping that vcarve could do the same, since they've obviously already done it for shopbot.

I don't think you guys grasp why making a "template" really doesn't work if not positioning the material at machine home.

Try this:. Mark a specific spot on your table. Now make a template the size of your table. Open that template and crate a much smaller work piece. Now try to position the workpiece to hit that spot on the table. Only way to do this now is to reposition the template, not the workpiece. Do that then out it on the table and see if the machine hits the spot.

[Adrian]

The problem is we're talking at cross purposes. You can place the "workpiece" (the vectors that make up the job) anywhere you like in VCarve. They don't have to be anywhere near the machine home. The material size can be the size of the actual material you're cutting or (as in the example of my previous) post the size of the table. The choice is yours. You can setup it up in any way that takes your fancy.

The issue is that we're not talking about the same thing when it comes to "workpiece" and "material". The XY is not a fixed point in either system.

[Frunple]

The issue is that we're not talking about the same thing when it comes to "workpiece" and "material". The XY is not a fixed point in either system.

The problem is the XY 'IS' a fixed point in the software.
If you create a table template, then add a fixed fixture to it, you can't make the fixture your XY datum. The whole drawing moves to the XY offset.
To do what Mike wants, the XY datum would need to be moved to a random (wherever the fixture is) point in the workspace.

[Adrian]

The issue is that we're not talking about the same thing when it comes to "workpiece" and "material". The XY is not a fixed point in either system.

The problem is the XY 'IS' a fixed point in the software.
If you create a table template, then add a fixed fixture to it, you can't make the fixture your XY datum. The whole drawing moves to the XY offset.
To do what Mike wants, the XY datum would need to be moved to a random (wherever the fixture is) point in the workspace.

Did you read the description of how I work with a fixed table? In that case the XY is irrelevant as it's always the same place regardless of what is being cut.

If the OP wants to have the layout of his table reflected in the material setup as vectors then the only way to do it is to keep the material the same size (as the material then becomes the table rather than the actual material) all the time and place the cutting vectors wherever they're needed as far as I know. No need to move templates, move XY (in Vectric or ShopBot) or use offsets etc.

Creating the fixtures as guides rather than vectors would be another way as guides aren't affected by offsets and stay static to the drawing XY zero.

[Frunple]

Did you read the description of how I work with a fixed table?

I did.
And what does that matter if it's not what Mike wants?
Unfortunately what he wants requires the XY to be moved without moving any of the material and I don't think that's possible.

[mtylerfl]

I don't understand the need to have to "visualize" the CNC table at all, except under extremely special circumstances (maybe). I certainly have never needed to.

If you have clamps/fixtures, or whatever at a known location on your table, AND you've set your machine's table xy zero at the appropriate spot relative to those items, you're good to go.

In the software, you select the material xy location (not the whole machine bed) and design your project on that material.

I typically use the lower-left corner as my material xy zero. So, when I place the material on the machine bed, I simply put that corner on the spot where the xy zero was set on the machine bed.

No fuss, no muss. No need to visualize the machine bed in the software, because I already know exactly where the material needs to be placed...i.e., the lower-left corner is the same xy zero as the xy zero I made for the machine bed location.

Does that help? I attempted to explain as clearly as possible.

[Adrian]

Did you read the description of how I work with a fixed table?

I did.
And what does that matter if it's not what Mike wants?
Unfortunately what he wants requires the XY to be moved without moving any of the material and I don't think that's possible.

It's not within the Vectric software (the control software is a different matter, most, including the shopbot software, have the ability to set a pseudo XY position). I was merely offering different suggestions to Mike to make the way he wants to work a bit easier within the confines of the software based on the way I've run a commercial operation for several years.

[Frunple]

I don't understand the need to have to "visualize" the CNC table at all, except under extremely special circumstances (maybe). I certainly have never needed to.

If you have clamps/fixtures, or whatever at a known location on your table, AND you've set your machine's table xy zero at the appropriate spot relative to those items, you're good to go.

In the software, you select the material xy location (not the whole machine bed) and design your project on that material.

I typically use the lower-left corner as my material xy zero. So, when I place the material on the machine bed, I simply put that corner on the spot where the xy zero was set on the machine bed.

No fuss, no muss. No need to visualize the machine bed in the software, because I already know exactly where the material needs to be placed...i.e., the lower-left corner is the same xy zero as the xy zero I made for the machine bed location.

Does that help? I attempted to explain as clearly as possible.

I agree. G54 offsets are all that's needed.

[Mikehell]

I don't understand the need to have to "visualize" the CNC table at all, except under extremely special circumstances (maybe). I certainly have never needed to.

If you have clamps/fixtures, or whatever at a known location on your table, AND you've set your machine's table xy zero at the appropriate spot relative to those items, you're good to go.

In the software, you select the material xy location (not the whole machine bed) and design your project on that material.

I typically use the lower-left corner as my material xy zero. So, when I place the material on the machine bed, I simply put that corner on the spot where the xy zero was set on the machine bed.

No fuss, no muss. No need to visualize the machine bed in the software, because I already know exactly where the material needs to be placed...i.e., the lower-left corner is the same xy zero as the xy zero I made for the machine bed location.

Does that help? I attempted to explain as clearly as possible.

I understand what you're saying. Its just that I'd like to visualize where my hold-downs are on the table while designing so I can place pieces accordingly. I've found a workaround, was just hoping there was a better option.

[Jozua]

Its just that I'd like to visualize where my hold-downs are on the table while designing so I can place pieces accordingly. I've found a workaround, was just hoping there was a better option.

You have had so many suggestions from forum members. I am totally confused why it is necessary to visualise the table.

My machine bed is 4 ft x 8 ft. I don’t care about that or where the clamps are or where I position the work piece on the table. I always use the centre of the material as my X and Y Zero and leave a 1 or 2-inch gap around my project for the clamps.

I position the work piece wherever I want. Now I simply manually jog to the centre of the work piece and in Mach 3, I click X (Zero), Y (Zero) and Z (Zero). Now this is the zero position. After moving to the tool change position, I simply click “Go to Zeros” and the machine will now go to that position.

See sketch. A, B or C. After manually jogged to the centre and zero the machine at that spot it will always return to the centre after a tool change and miss all clamps that are normally positioned at the outside of the material.
Joz

[mtylerfl]

I understand what you're saying. Its just that I'd like to visualize where my hold-downs are on the table while designing so I can place pieces accordingly. I've found a workaround, was just hoping there was a better option.

Ok. If it helps you feel more comfortable, there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our own way of working. Carve on!