Rounded bases of pockets.

This forum is for general discussion regarding VCarve Pro

Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Ollie » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:14 pm

Hi fellow CNC enthusiasts.

I have a CNC router made from 45/90 extrusion with a 2.2kw water cooled spindle. I am running UCCNC to control the machine. It is great fun.

I currently use Fusion 360 for both modelling and generating toolpaths. It is a truly wonderful software and overkill for my purposes in many ways.
However it poor at engraving, doing things like vertically oriented text is annoying as you have do one letter at a time etc. Not had great luck with importing vectors either, though you can do it.
I have downloaded the demo version of V Carve desktop and have been playing with it quite a bit. It is obviously better at lettering and engraving.
It takes me less time to do simple engraving designs in vcarve.
I am considering buying it this week. But....
I cannot seem to get a rounded bottom or top to pockets.
I have a small project in mind, a block 300mm by 200mm by 45mm. In this block I wish to pocket out some holes about 35mm deep of a few different shapes to hold keys, glasses, loose change etc. In the centre will be a v carved logo and maybe a line drawing.
I want the bottom of the hole to be a smooth transition from the flat bottom to the side. (In Fusion it is called a fillet) not necessarily the same diameter as the bit. And a similar but reversed transition from the flat top to the side. I can draw it in Fusion but not in vcarve.
Now I could I suppose do the main carving in Fusion then the engraving in vcarve but I am sure can be done in vcarve .
If not I am not sure it will be worth buying or not.

Any advice much appreciated.

Ollie
Ollie
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Custom built machine using UCCNC

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby rscrawford » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:11 pm

There are a few ways to do this in V-carve.

Probably the easiest and the best results would be to use the moulding toolpath. There are videos of this in the tutorials.
Russell Crawford
http://www.cherryleaf-rustle.com
User avatar
rscrawford
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Wetaskiwin, Alberta
Model of CNC Machine: CAMaster Cobra 408 ATC with recoil

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Ollie » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Thanks rscrawford.

I will give it a go. It is tricky learning a different approach to get a similar result.
To me it is like in Fusion you fully create the model before working on the CAM part. But in vcarve the drawing and CAM are sort of done at the same time.

I will have another go using the moulding toolpath.

Cheers

Ollie
Ollie
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Custom built machine using UCCNC

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby PaulRowntree » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:23 am

The Pro version supports gadgets, and the FlutePlus gadget lets you design any Z profile on a series of X-Y vectors to make bowls, dished pockets, etc.
Paul Rowntree
WarpDriver, StandingWave, Topo and gadgets available at PaulRowntree.weebly.com
PaulRowntree
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Model of CNC Machine: homebuilt 4'x2' (Mach3+G540)

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby sharkcutup » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:07 am

When I want rounded edge pockets at the bottom I have used High Core Box Bits .375" dia & .75" dia.
I usually arrange my toolpaths so that I leave sufficient material for a last pass carve with the High Core Box Bit

For example in the bottom of a holiday candy dish

Not sure if this is what you are trying to do though!

Just a Thought!!!

Sharkcutup
Facebook: Hogan's CNC Crafts
Website: www.hoganscnccrafts.com
V-Carve Pro 9.517
sharkcutup
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:48 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Shark HD3 Pro Extended Bed with Spindle

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Adrian » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:13 am

Ollie wrote:I will give it a go. It is tricky learning a different approach to get a similar result.
To me it is like in Fusion you fully create the model before working on the CAM part. But in vcarve the drawing and CAM are sort of done at the same time.

It's a common issue that many people struggle with when moving from a fully 3D product to something like VCarve. I get it all the time with youngsters who are used to doing everything in 3D printing.

What you have to remember is that the shape of the tool is part of the process as well. Totally different results can be achieved from the same vectors by using a round tool, a square tool, a pointed tool or even a form tool. That's where the toolpath preview in VCarve comes into play. You can experiment to your hearts content and see the different results.
User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
 
Posts: 9204
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby wb9tpg » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:03 pm

Rockler has some nice sign making bits. I have them but not tried them in the CNC yet....
wb9tpg
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:49 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko 3 XL

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby 4DThinker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:55 pm

When I need a pocket with filleted bottom corners I typically use an end mill to clear the inside up to the beginning of the fillet, then switch to a ball end bit to do the final pass around the perimeter. When I want to round over the top edge I use roundover bit that is designed for CNC use. No bearing on the roundover bit.

If you want fillets and roudovers that are a radius you can't match with a specific bit, then the moulding toolpath can usually handle those needs.

4D
4DThinker
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:14 pm
Model of CNC Machine: CNC Shark Pro

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Jim_in_PA » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:06 pm

Adrian wrote:It's a common issue that many people struggle with when moving from a fully 3D product to something like VCarve.


Very, very true.

"Recreating" a 3D design using 2D toolpaths requires one to think in terms of what steps (and cutters) are necessary to accomplish the task. There may also be some requirements to compromise on certain contours. For the stated job to be done, I would probably cut the pocket using large tool clearing and the finish passes with a ball nose. Yes, the "filet" isn't flared with multi-radius like it can be in a true 3D model, but it gets the job done. Rounding over the top edge would be a profile pass "on the vector line" with an appropriate round-over cutter, typically the same radius as the ball nose used for the pocket perimeters. Again, simple, albeit not multi-radius. I will often do the top round-over passes (not one bite for full depth) first before cutting the pockets so there is more material supporting the edge. Note that the round-over cutter must be the "pointed", not bearing type.
User avatar
Jim_in_PA
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:24 am
Model of CNC Machine: Camaster Stinger II SR-44 (MacOS user)

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby ger21 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:28 pm

If you have any "standard" woodworking experience, think about how you would do it manually with a handheld router, then duplicate that method with the CNC. The toolpaths are nearly the same, but the CNC gets rid of the need for jigs and fixtures to guide the router.

While CAD/CAM programs like Fusion 360 are great, for the vast majority of woodworking with a CNC, they teach you a lot of bad habits. 3D toolpaths should be avoided at all cost, unless they are the ONLY way to get something done.
If you can stick to 2D toolpaths, you'll get better finishes, and greatly reduced cycle times.
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com
ger21
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:59 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI, USA
Model of CNC Machine: Custom DIY

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Ollie » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:47 pm

Wow

Thanks for all the overnight responses.

Ger 21-
I do indeed have "standard" woodworking experience, perhaps that is my problem.. ?
I understand what you are saying about trying to stick to a 2d toolpath, part of my problem in this circumstance is the fact I don`t have a suitable cove bit for rounding the top over (all mine have bearings on) and I was going for quite a "mellow" radius at the base of the pockets.

PaulRowntree - I will look on youtube for the gadgets, might be worthwhile paying the difference between desktop and pro.

sharkcutup wrote:When I want rounded edge pockets at the bottom I have used High Core Box Bits .375" dia & .75" dia.
I usually arrange my toolpaths so that I leave sufficient material for a last pass carve with the High Core Box Bit

That is what I am trying to do , like the bottom of a candy dish. I have one of those bits kicking around somewhere. I suppose it is all to to with the getting the offset of the tool from the path selected correct ?
But also thinking of some other things I want to do in future I would like more shallow bowl cuts larger in diameter than any sensible router bit. So how do I do that?

4DThinker wrote:When I need a pocket with filleted bottom corners I typically use an end mill to clear the inside up to the beginning of the fillet, then switch to a ball end bit to do the final pass around the perimeter.


That is how I was trying to do it at the bottom but also the top.

I watched a couple of youtube clips about the moulding toolpath and I understand the idea but can`t quite get it to work right yet. I will keep trying.
If I can get a satisfactory result and crack the methodoligy of it I will probably shell out for the licence.

Looks like I will need to further expand my already ridiculous router bit collection....

Thanks

Ollie
Ollie
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Custom built machine using UCCNC

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby SteveNelson46 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:25 pm

Magnate.net has a bowl bit set that may be what you need.

https://www.magnate.net/ProductDetails. ... =RBPBOWL01
Steve
User avatar
SteveNelson46
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:43 pm
Location: Tucson, Az.
Model of CNC Machine: Camaster Stinger with Recoil Lathe

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby sharkcutup » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 pm

That is what I am trying to do , like the bottom of a candy dish. I have one of those bits kicking around somewhere. I suppose it is all to to with the getting the offset of the tool from the path selected correct ?
But also thinking of some other things I want to do in future I would like more shallow bowl cuts larger in diameter than any sensible router bit. So how do I do that?


pocket.png


Above noted Cut Away image is a .25" pocket cut into .5" material with rounded edge bottom and top edge rounded. No OFFSETS involved.
First Tool path .125" depth Pocketed using a 1/2" dia Straight Bit to removed majority of material.
Second Tool path .125" depth Pocketed using a 3/4" High Core Box Bit
Third Tool path .25" rounded top edge using a Pointed .5" Dia. (.25" radius) RoundOver Bit

Material Setup - 12.0" by 24.0" by 0.5"
Inside OVAL SHAPED bowl measurement - 20.7" by 9.0" carved to .25" deep

Of Course you would use thicker material and two-sided file to carve the opposite side the shape of your bowl but this was a quick n dirty file representation to show
carving of a shallow bowl inside with rounded bottom edges and the top inside edge slightly rounded using tools which I have available to me. No OFFSETS involved!!

The above can be achieved on much deeper pockets too. Just have to make the appropriate necessary changes required.

Hope this helps!

Sharkcutup
Facebook: Hogan's CNC Crafts
Website: www.hoganscnccrafts.com
V-Carve Pro 9.517
sharkcutup
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:48 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Shark HD3 Pro Extended Bed with Spindle

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby highpockets » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:24 pm

Using the Moulding Toolpath and Pocket Toolpath to clean up the bottom.

Image 441.png

Image 440.png
John
Maker of Chips
User avatar
highpockets
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: PDJ Pilot Pro

Re: Rounded bases of pockets.

Postby Ollie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:21 pm

This is most helpful.

Sharkcutup - Thanks for this, it is very helpful indeed. I will try and replicate it myself later. You say no offsets required, last night I was playing with the roundover bits to do the top of the edge.
I found it would only work right if I offset it by the amount of the radius. Do you set up all the bits from the same toolpath or "rail" as I have heard it called.?

highpockets - That is very similar to what I am attempting, am I right in thinking that the small squigly line is the one used for the moulding toolpath, and what bit would you use for this?

I am getting more confident in this software, earlier today I cut out the Bulls head pub sign included in the demo. I used the mach3 post even though I am using UCCNC and it worked fine, I did one in MDF and one in beech. I used a 90 degree V bit 20000rpm 2500mm/min. It was perfect in the MDF but in the beech I had a little burning, just on the ones where it plunges deep straight in (on the deepest parts).

I will be getting one or other version of it this week.
So expect more daft questions soon.

Cheers

Ollie
Ollie
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:34 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Custom built machine using UCCNC

Next

Return to VCarve - General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Charlie_l and 35 guests